Ep27. Are you feeling the invisible weights of motherhood?

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Parenting can be heavy - especially when you’re navigating burnout, neurodivergence, or the constant mental load of trying to hold everything together.

In this episode of Your Calm Parenting Path, Nina sits down with guest Michelle Marks, a neurodivergent parent raising neurodivergent children, to talk about the unseen emotional toll of motherhood and how mindfulness can help you reconnect with your calm, even when life feels overwhelming.

Together, they explore the realities of living with burnout, recognising its sneaky signs, and building self-awareness through gentle mindfulness practices that restore energy and compassion - for both you and your child.

You’ll Learn:

• How to recognise the early signs of burnout and overwhelm before they take hold

• What mindfulness really looks like for a busy, neurodivergent parent

• How to manage anxiety and emotional overload with simple grounding tools

• Why it’s okay to take up space, slow down, and prioritise rest

• Practical ways to help both you and your child find calm in the chaos

Why This Episode Matters

The invisible weights of motherhood can be exhausting - especially when they include emotional labour, sensory overload, and the pressure to “get it right.” Too often, parents carry this weight in silence, believing exhaustion is just part of the job.

This conversation shines a light on those unseen struggles and offers hope through mindfulness - not as another task to master, but as a way of being kinder to yourself. It’s a reminder that your worth isn’t measured by productivity, and that caring for yourself is part of caring for your family.

Take Home Action

This week, notice when you find yourself comparing your parenting to someone else’s - whether it’s another mum at school, a post on social media, or even the picture in your own head of how things should look.

When that comparison appears, pause and remind yourself of Michelle’s beautiful reflection:“Stop measuring yourself against people who aren’t carrying the same weights as you.”

Take a slow breath and gently affirm:“I’m doing enough. I am enough.”

Because every family, every child, and every nervous system is different. Your path will never look like anyone else’s - and that’s exactly as it should be.

Take the Next Step

If this episode resonated with you and you’re ready to lighten the invisible weights of motherhood, book a free 20 Minute Clarity Call with Nina.

Together, you’ll uncover one or two simple strategies to bring more calm and connection back into your days.

Links and Resources

• Nina’s free resource: 5 day mindfulness challenge

• Check out Michelle's Graphic Design page on Instagram or YouTube     

Let’s Connect

• Follow Nina on Instagram

• Website: mindfulparentinglifestyle.com.au

• Email: nina@mindfulparentinglifestyle.com.au

About the Hosts

Nina Visic is a mindful parenting coach, speaker, and founder of Mindful Parenting Lifestyle. A mum herself, she understands the weight many parents carry - the constant juggling of expectations, emotions, and exhaustion that can leave you feeling stretched thin.

Through her gentle coaching approach, Nina helps parents shift from reactive to responsive, finding calm and confidence even in the most chaotic seasons.

As a former yeller turned mindful mum, Nina knows firsthand that mindfulness isn’t about perfection - it’s about presence. Her programs and podcast teach simple, science-backed strategies to help parents reduce stress, strengthen relationships, and nurture emotional intelligence at home.

In episodes like Are You Feeling the Invisible Weights of Motherhood?, Nina creates a safe space for real, vulnerable conversations about burnout, overwhelm, and the messy beauty of raising children. Her mission is to remind every parent that they’re not alone - and that calm, compassionate parenting is possible, one mindful breath at a time.

Michelle Marks is a neurodivergent parent, business owner, and creative who is passionate about honest conversations around mental health, burnout, and the challenges of parenting children with higher support needs. After years of running her own business while raising her family, Michelle experienced chronic burnout that reshaped the way she approaches life, self-care, and parenting.

Now, she openly shares her journey to help other parents feel less alone in their struggles and more empowered to prioritise their wellbeing. Michelle brings a refreshingly real perspective to topics like mindfulness, capacity, and compassion - offering hope to parents who feel stretched thin and reminding them that they are doing enough, exactly as they are.

Transcript

This transcript was created using Headliner. It has been copied and pasted but not proofread or edited, so it may contain errors or inaccuracies.

Nina: You're listening to your Calm Parenting Path. I'm your host, Nina, a mindful parenting coach and mum. M here to help you go from overwhelmed and reactive to calm, confident and connected with your kids. This show is for parents who want to raise their children with more patience, less stress and a whole lot more joy, because small shifts make a big impact and you can build the parenting life you've always wanted. If you want to see what I'm up to, follow me on Instagram mindfulparentinglifestyle and don't forget to hit, follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. Let's get started.

Nina: Hello and welcome back to your Calm Parenting Path. Today, I'm joined by someone who has walked and is still walking the messy, beautiful and often exhausting path of neurodivergent parenting, Michelle Marks. Michelle is a former graphic designer, a neurodivergent parent raising neurodivergent children, and someone who is navigating the realities of burnout, anxiety and the challenges that come with parenting children with higher support needs. We're diving into the power of mindfulness, what it looks like when you're juggling it all, how it can help with burnout and anxiety, and why it is especially vital for parents with fewer internal resources due to neurodivergence, chronic illness, or just the sheer emotional labour of parenting differently wired kids. Michelle, thank you for being here today.

Michelle: Thanks, Nina. It is such a privilege and I'm so excited. I love that you've released a podcast and, uh, I don't know at what point in the future this is coming out, but, uh, yeah, I've binged every single episode and I absolutely love.

Nina: Oh, that is music to my ears, Michelle. Thank you. Let's start with your story. What has your parenting journey looked like so far and what were some of the turning points that led you to start exploring things like mindfulness and self care more intentionally?

Michelle: I came into this parenting thing probably the same way as you, as most parents do. Like, you come in with, like, rosy glasses on, thinking, oh, I'm going to be such a good parent. This is going to be amazing. Oh, I love babies. Um, and then, like, you quickly kind of learn that this is the hardest thing you've ever done in your life, but simultaneously the best thing. So it's kind of like a push and pull it both ways, definitely. So, yeah, I've loved being a parent so far, but. And that just kind of is exactly it. Like, it is the hardest thing you ever have to do, but it's the most amazing thing that you'll ever have to do. And that's kind of why parents always look so exhausted and like they're dying. But they would never change a thing. Like, they'll always say, I'd never give up this life. And it's true, isn't it?

Nina: Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Michelle: You know, like you never give it up, but it's definitely not what you expected.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: And, and I think for me personally, and I would say a lot of people would resonate, it kind of gets, it's, it's hard and then it changes and you think you've, you've got something mastered and then everything changes and you've got to start over again.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: And it's like every age they reach comes with its own blessings and challenges at the same time.

Nina: It never gets easier. It just shifts and morphs into different things, doesn't it?

Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's where the importance of mindfulness comes in. Or, you know, just strategies in general to survive. Because often you feel like you're just treading water, not getting anywhere, whereas you need to find something. And a lot of people talk about self care, like you've got to, you know, you've got to take care of yourself as a mom, or you sleep when the baby sleeps, you know, and all that good advice, good in, you know, air quotes, all the good advice that people give you that is so easily distributed in hindsight, but when you're in the thick of it, it's not always well received because it's so difficult. Mhm. But I think mindfulness, for me, I never really understood what mindfulness was until I met you. And it was only because of your influence that I thought, oh, this sounds all right. And it wasn't necessarily mindfulness that interested me. It was the fact that you shared that it is possible to be the calm parent you want to be. Um, and I'm like, okay, how? Like my brain is like, I want to know how this works. How does this scientifically work exactly. Like I want to know every single brain rewiring process that goes on in your mind when, with mindfulness. And it was like, that's, that's just how my

00:05:00

Michelle: brain likes to know things. And I don't do things unless I understand how it works. So I did a little bit of reading on how these things, like how these things work. And then you teaching the practical aspect in your beautiful membership and just things that you talk about and even, um, this is one of the reasons I'm loving your podcast is because you're just, you're sharing these gold nuggets that remind me back of things that I learned in your membership.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: And it's basically these little things are uh, the gateway to being that karma parent.

Nina: Beautiful. So you started a mindfulness practise after we started the coaching through the membership. And how has that made changes in, in your parenting so far?

Michelle: So one thing that I have taken away from it is when people give you that well meaning advice like you know, have a break, have some time away, have some alone time, self care. La la la. They talk about all that but they don't talk about how like the, how you actually manage all that. Um, and what I found was that you can't just expect to have, you know, one day off from parenting or one day off from anything and expect the world to be good again. It doesn't work like that because if you have that day off then all of a sudden tomorrow you're back into it again. So the only thing that you can do is do it a little bit really frequently. Mhm. You've got to build that into your day where you can and figure out which part of it works for you. So for me, and I remember telling you this back in the membership, my most favourite mindfulness moment is in the shower.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: Because when I'm in the shower like it's just, it's the unwritten rule. Well, not for toddlers but you know, nobody's allowed to come in. It is, it is totally acceptable for you to lock the door and refuse anyone to come in. Uh, and it's something that happens regularly. It's like a routine. So it's like every day I look forward to having my hot steaming shower where I can lock the door and nobody needs me for that five minutes.

Nina: Excellent.

Michelle: So and that combined with the hot water, it's just like that thing that you can focus on to have that peace of mindfulness.

Nina: Yeah, Yeah. I was going to ask, ah, when do you add mindfulness to your day? And I think that's a really great example. And lots of other parents I've spoken to find their mindful moment in the shower because as you said, you can have that time alone and it's acceptable and you don't have to feel like you're being a selfish parent just to have a shower alone.

Michelle: Yeah.

Nina: Are there any other moments in your day, Michelle, where you are able to find a little snippet of time to be mindful?

Michelle: Yeah. And um, I'm sorry to say I blame you for most of my weight gain. Uh, one day in one of your lessons, it was like, mindful eating. And I think you were either eating a piece of chocolate or a piece of chocolate cake or something like that. So every time, like, I have a chocolate cake, I'm like, mindful moments. With Nina, I need more mindful moments, which means I need more mud cake.

Nina: The funny thing is, I'm, um, actually supposed to teach that with sultanas, but I think it's way more fun to do with chocolate.

Michelle: Oh, stop the sultanas.

Nina: Why would you have sultanas when you can have chocolate? Right.

Michelle: 100%.

Nina: I think that's a really good thing. Like, cup of tea, having a cup of tea, cup of coffee, eating something nice. And you can also include your kids in that activity too. You can talk them through the process of going through your five senses while you're eating or drinking something, so.

Michelle: Oh, no, I don't share my m. Cake. Were you crazy?

Nina: Sit in the shower and eat your mud cake. Lock the door.

Michelle: Yeah, I certainly can share it with the kids. Like, it's little things, like if we're in the garden or if we're going for a walk. I remember there was one time, not long back, with kids were arguing. We were going for a walk and the kids were arguing and I just said, how many birds can you guys hear? Um, they stopped.

Nina: Amazing.

Michelle: Oh, I can hear a magpie. Oh, Mom. I can also hear a garbage truck. Like, you know, so it's like, um. Kind of like if you sit there and say, oh, I'm going to teach you mindfulness. Guys, like, yeah, they switch, they're not going to listen. But if you give them a little challenge, like, oh, how many sounds can you hear? Can you find three pink things? You know, and it's kind of like, I guess later, when they're older, I can teach them the why. Why do we do.

Nina: It's like a circuit breaker, isn't it? Gets them back into their body, into their surroundings, into themselves. And it's good for us, too. Thank you. Something that we've talked about is burnout. And burnout is something that many parents relate to, but it can often go unnoticed or unlabeled for a long time. And you mentioned that you have experienced burnout. What did that look like for you? And how did you come to recognise it for

00:10:00

Nina: what it was?

Michelle: Burnout is awful. It is awful. And the reason is because it's so sneaky. It's like a ninja. Um, it comes on so slowly, you know, it'll be like, you're just extra tired, which you can attribute to being a parent. Or your hair starts falling out and you're like, oh, I'm just a bit stressed. It can masquerade as is like increased anxiety or depression. Or it can be weight gain, weight loss, loss of appetite, all these things that are just so, like, it can point to anything. And you're like, what's wrong with me? I'm not right. You know, I'll start having my multivitamins again. Or I'll try this, you know? M. Maybe I'm iron deficient.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: You'll sneak up on you, be like, you know what? I felt like crap for so long. And you'll go to the doctor or your gps because it's usually your first point of call and you're like, like, I'm so tired all the time. They'll check your iron and your iron's fine, you know, and. And they'll be like, you're so tired because you're iron deficient. And then you fix that and it doesn't go away. M. And you'll have other symptoms. Yeah. Like, why is my hair falling out? It's not falling out to the point where it's considered alopecia, but it's falling out enough that you, you're concerned and you notice it.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: And you notice it. So you get your hair cut short so it doesn't fall out so much. Um, and it'll be like weight gain. And it's like, oh, it's because I haven't been exercising or because I've been, you know, poor diet. And yeah, it probably is those things. But the reality of burnout is that because it's chronic and it hangs around for so long, it's basically just your body is under constant state of stress, so your organs stop doing what they're supposed to be doing. So you have all these signs and symptoms that when they are tested, they come up normal. So then your doctor's sitting there going, you know, there's nothing wrong with you, or it's just depression, or it's just this or it's just that, or it's just you need your multivitamins or they'll prescribe you with pills because you've got headaches every day. M. And you'll just get put on so many things. And it's like if you are not aware of the existence of burnout.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: Or that if you're not self aware in your own body, it just sneaks up so slowly that you just think this is just normal. And then there'll be other parents who feel exactly the same, are completely unaware, and they're like, oh, yeah, no, I feel the same way. And so you're like, okay, this is normal Steve, how it is, it's just like his leech that you don't know is there, and yet it's just taking such a toll on your body. And the thing is, you. You might feel tired, so you have a break or something and you have a rest, and then you might feel a little bit better. But then you. You go back to life the way it was and things just go back, you know, and it's like, it's. It's slowly destroying you without you even knowing it.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: So I. I feel that in my experience, like, I've been on a long road, it's been over a year since I realised that I was on burnout. And I did all these things to try and help. Nothing helped. I, uh, closed down my business. I. Like, there was a lot of other things going on, but my entire life changed in order to try and stop destroying my body and my mind and my spirit and to just be the parent and person that I wanted to be. Um, but I feel like there's a lot of little things that I'm doing that are absolutely helping. But it's such a long journey and you have to change everything about your life, um, for it to even budge. Yeah. Um. And my heart breaks that there are so many parents out there who go through this without even having any clue.

Nina: Just thinking that it's normal.

Michelle: Yeah.

Nina: So I'll just put a call out for any parents that are listening. If all this is resonating for you, please go and get some help if.

Michelle: You have a GP who listens to you. And, like, thankfully, my GP does listen to me. She's all over it. And she found things. Like, when I went in there, one of the clues was I had high blood pressure, like, insanely high blood pressure, to the point where she wasn't letting me out of the clinic until it dropped.

Nina: Wow.

Michelle: Um, because it was off the chart high. And I'm like, I'm fine, this is normal. But it was my normal because I'd experienced it for so long. Um, and she knew that from everything we were speaking about that it was chronic stress, it was burnout. Ah. There was depression there as well as a result. Um, so she was onto it. But there are a lot of other GPs who would be like, oh, no, you're fine, move on. So the. It's kind of like, start with your gp, but, you know, there's a clause on that

00:15:00

Michelle: that only if they listen. Um, and if you can. I think I once worked with this amazing functional health practitioner who looked at your health as a whole. Um, and she found through different testing, it's actually found there was actually measurable high cortisol. Yes, it's supposed to go up in times of stress and then come down afterwards, but in burnout, it goes up and it stays up because you're so chronically stressed. But she was actually able to measure the chronic high cortisol. She found low dopamine, she found all these other things that the GP wouldn't have even tested for, and she was able to paint a picture. So if you have somebody like that, you can't turn to your gp, somebody like that who can help you, but someone who's going to look holistically at the entire picture.

Nina: Yeah. Look. Great advice, Michelle, and thank you for being so open about your struggle with burnout, because I can imagine when you were going through it, it was something that you couldn't talk about. So I'm really grateful for you to share that story today. And, um, maybe, you know, parents that are listening, that are experiencing it, might be able to make some changes. So I really appreciate that. So let's make a shift back to parenting. As I mentioned in the intro, you are, uh, neurodivergent. You have neurodivergent children, and supporting children with higher emotional or developmental needs, sometimes those day to day can be incredibly intense. So how has mindfulness tools helped you to create a space for calm and connection when things do get heavy with your kids?

Michelle: Oh, that's such a hard one. Because being neurodivergent, whether it's yourself or your kids, adds a new layer of complexity. And your emotions are, uh, probably a little bit more all over the place. Yep, probably, uh, depending on what you are struggling, uh, with, you might feel the emotions more severely than a neurotypical parent. Which means if you, instead of angry, you get furious, instead of happy, you get really, really happy.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: You know, and you can experience the whole gamut of emotions within an hour. And that makes it even more difficult because typically, and, uh, this is not across the board, but typically a neurodivergent will have more information their body and mind is processing. So if you compare someone who is neurotypical, you know, with. With a neurodivergent, say, say someone with autism, for instance, something that's loud to a neurotypical is painfully loud to someone with autism.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: Someone who is bright is painfully bright. Scratchy, um, clothes are painfully scratchy.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: You know, everything is in excess with your senses. Another example, someone with adhd. You can anticipate what your kids needs, what, what they are going to need, what they are feeling before it even happens, before they're even aware of it. It's like a hyper sense that they magically possess, which means you're constantly on the lookout for everyone else's emotions, everyone else's feelings, ah, in addition to your own. So you're also possibly managing other people's emotions especially. And I don't, this is not across the board, but there's a lot of mothers that I've spoken to who find that they also have to manage the father's emotions because they're not as self aware as the mothers would be, particularly if she's, let's say, has adhd, for instance, or is considered a highly sensitive person, an hsp. So they're tuned into everyone else's. So it's kind of like you're walking this parenting journey and you're just picking up all these extra weights along the way because you've got extra sensory information that you're dealing with that your brain's processing. You're picking up on everyone else's emotions before they're aware of them and you're trying to navigate them in addition to lower executive functioning. So you know, if you have adhd, you forget, you forget what you've forgotten. You know, there's no, um, way that you can remember it unless you put things in place. Like a calendar, like so my calendar is my brain. I wouldn't have any idea of what's on today unless I looked at my calendar. So if it doesn't go in there, it's not gonna happen. You can put things down and you've got no idea where it's, you know, so there's just so many added layers of difficulty that throughout your day, you reach lunchtime and you

00:20:00

Michelle: feel like you've lived a, uh, week's worth of brain input in that half day. So you're exhausted. So neurodivergent people will become exhausted and burnt out far more quickly, uh, because their, their capacity for input has been filled faster than someone who's neurotypical. And that's because neurotypical people can filter out a lot of the information that neurodefence people can't. So it's just like, it really is just that, ah, people are walking through the same journey, uh, and it's either like I love analogies. Right. And it's like you're walking through life wondering why you are carrying these invisible weights when other people are running without them.

Nina: Great analogy.

Michelle: It's so difficult for a lot of parents, particularly our age, because we grew up in. In a time where neurodivergence was shunned. It was. It was bad, it was. You know, people used horrible words to describe those sorts of things and our parents didn't want to know about it, they didn't want to subject us to that. So they just. It was like, no, no.

Nina: Pushed under the carpet.

Michelle: Pushed under the carpet. Now it's accepted and more understood because we can see that they're not just a naughty kid, they're having a hard time struggling and they have these. They're carrying these weights that other children aren't trying to understand why they don't fit in. I think it's so important to talk about this because then other. Other parents who could be listening, going, wow, this. This is really hitting home for me, what's going on. But, yeah, if you're walking through life carrying these invisible weights or wading through water, you're, uh, sitting there wondering why you're failing at life when everyone around you can do things easily. You're like, what's wrong with me? But there's supposedly nothing wrong with you. You're just burnt out.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: Or not even that if burnout's not recognised, or you don't have no idea that you're neurodivergent or that you're struggling. And it's the same thing with chronic pain as well. Uh, I've walked around my whole life with a headache and a migraine most days, not even knowing why or how. The GP will just give you pills for it that make you feel worse. When all you needed to do was realise that bright is too bright, loud is painfully loud, and that all that information that you're receiving just converts into a headache.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: When you respect your senses, like, you know, turn the noise down, only have one source of noise at a time. Amazing. Your headaches go away.

Nina: I reckon that must have been such a light bulb, um, for you once you'd realised that.

Michelle: Yeah.

Nina: So when parents are carrying this invisible weight and they see their kids possibly carrying this invisible weight too. When you are carrying that weight and you have a low capacity, how do you cope when your kids still need so much from you?

Michelle: The first step is totally self awareness or awareness of what your kids are struggling with. So whether it's you, whether it's Your child, children, both. You have to know what you're dealing with. Because let's go back to another analogy. Uh, if you've got a headache, a band aid is not gonna fix it. You need to know what you're dealing with before you can treat it. So, uh, if you don't understand that you're neurodivergent or that your children are, or even what it is we're dealing with. So, you know, going back to couple of years ago, when my son, he was diagnosed with adhd, but we had no idea that it was also autism and dyslexia. We were like, no, there's something else, and we just don't know what it is. And we can't help him until we know what it is. Soon as we knew what it was, we started learning and we. And he's thriving now.

Nina: Oh, uh, amazing.

Michelle: This just reminds me of something a paediatrician once said to me. I said, he has adhd, but we're wondering if he also has autism. And she was like, why do you need that label? And I said to her, it's not that I need the label, it's what the label can help us with.

Nina: Hundred percent.

Michelle: Because parenting a neurodivergent child is different to parenting neurotypical child. Like, typical strategies don't work with your. You have to approach it differently. You can't do that without first knowing what the problem was. So absolutely, the first step is knowing what, what it is you're dealing with and know yourself and your child. What are, uh, the triggers? What, you know, what, what triggers a meltdown? What triggers these stressful moments. Once you understand that, you can kind of then start figuring out which mindful practises are, uh, going to work for your unique brain or your child's unique brain.

00:25:00

Nina: Perfect.

Michelle: And here's a perfect example of how that plays out with all the advice. You know, it could be like, do candle breaths. Like, it doesn't matter what, what it is. I can't do it in the moment.

Nina: Right.

Michelle: Unless I get out of there.

Nina: Okay.

Michelle: So any advice anybody gives me on, um, what to do in that moment will not work. Until I'm out of the room, I'm away by myself. A lot of neurodivergent people will need a lot of alone time because that's the only way to shut down all the sensory information that they're receiving from others where they can heal or they can recharge their battery. When I understood that, I'm like, okay, so now I understand why mindful practises only work when I'm alone.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: So that's what I mean. It's so important to understand yourself as much as possible.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: And it's going to be a learning journey.

Nina: Exactly. It's a bit of trial and error too, I imagine. Right. You try this this week and see if that works. Doesn't. Okay, well, let's change this little bit and see if it works next week. And being aware of what is working and what isn't working.

Michelle: That's right. With neurodivergence, particularly autism, there'll be a high level of demand avoidance. So, uh, anybody suggesting anything of you, anybody trying to teach you anything will be met with instant anxiety and fear because it's just, it's a demand that's placed on them that just naturally and immediately ignites that anxiety. And you can't do it, so it has to be in the right space. You can even say to yourself in that moment, like, um, I'm so, I'm fuming. I'm so angry right now. Okay, do your deep breathing. It's like instant anxiety that, yeah, just like completely blows up the problem because you have been told you have to do something, even if you're telling yourself you have to do it. Yeah.

Nina: Okay.

Michelle: If people are telling you these things, you're supposed to do this and it just makes you angrier. Uh, and you're neurodivergent, that's probably a demand avoidance, which is just a defence mechanism. It's. You're not doing anything wrong, you're not a nasty person for it. You've just, you're receiving things and your brain is just converting it into something that should be afraid of.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: But try and find that way to bring the mindfulness into her in a way that works with your unique brain. Um, so for me, it's the flight or fight thing. If there's any demands, if there's any anger, anything, my natural response is to fly. If I can't, um, fly, I fight. So that's why I get angry if I can't get away.

Nina: So interesting.

Michelle: If I need to, like, if the kids are doing something, I gotta go in my room, my safe place, lock the door to calm down, then I can come back, then I can do the breathing, then I can be the calm parent. So for me, if there's big emotions being felt, I leave, calm down and I come back.

Nina: Great.

Michelle: And yes, it's more difficult when the kids are younger. If you've got a newborn, pop, um, newborn in the safe place in the cot. The worst they can do is cry.

Nina: Yep.

Michelle: You go and have those few minutes where you calm down, where you can come back and be the calm parent. If the toddlers are older, do you have a playpen? You know, put them in, they're safe. Just, just go into the next room. Just have something. If your sister is there, your mum's there, your hubby's there, someone's there, just like, step away, you know, And. And if you need it, watch the episode of Bluey where the mum talks about, I need 20 minutes.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: Because Louise's mum is, you know, she's like the ultimate parent.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: That we simultaneously love and hate her because of how good she does. But that episode where she just needs 20 minutes, like, and that kind of makes it socially acceptable for us to just disappear and not want to be around our kids for 20 minutes.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: But it's essential, you know, anybody who's listening might find that there's something different, you know, they might need to tap. If you're autistic or if you have adhd, you might have stims that are just little repetitive things that you need to do to calm, um, your body down. Don't hide that.

Nina: Ah, uh, yes. Don't hide it.

Michelle: Because neurodivergent people, they've been suppressing their stims their whole life. Because it's weird in mhm, you know, air quotes again. Bring them back, baby. You know, like, if you've got a rock or if you've got to shake your hands, or if you've got to do something that calms you down, do it. Because that's your body's way of calming you down. And for me, it's the

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Michelle: same music. It's my favourite song on repeat blasting in my ears because that shuts the whole world out. And that's the other thing as well. My mindful moment is having my favourite song blasting and then just like closing my eyes and just appreciating it, being in the moment.

Nina: Ah. Uh, Michelle, that's such great advice. What?

Michelle: Your mindful moment might look different to the next. Just know that, uh, your mindful moment is good. It's okay.

Nina: Any mindful moment is good. Yeah. And finding the one that works for you is gonna have the best positive effect on the outcome at the end of the day. Now you've shared with me a powerful moment when your son experienced an anxiety attack. I think you're in the car from memory and you were able to talk him through it. So are you able to walk us through what that moment looked like and how the mindfulness helped.

Michelle: Yeah, that was. That was really great. So my son's homeschooled, and we have our, uh, library days on Wednesdays. So we went to the library that day, and I was driving home, and we were listening to a, uh, podcast, a science podcast or something. And he told me we were on the highway, so I couldn't pull over, but he told me, he's like, my. My chest hurts, Mom. My. My heart hurts. My chest hurts. And. And I knew from him. Cause I know he experiences a lot of anxiety. It's just kind of comes with the territory. And he was getting worked up, and I was like, okay, how can. Cause I was feeling particularly calm in this moment, so I was able to handle it. And I, uh, said to him, I said, okay, sweetie, why don't you tell me, like, where in your body do you feel it? It's here. It's in my chest. Okay. Do you feel it in your legs? No, I can't feel it in my legs. Do you feel it in your head? A, uh, little bit in my head. Do you feel it in your fingertips? No, I don't feel it in my finger. It's just in my chest. All right, thanks for letting me know. Let's keep an eye on that, shall we? Like, just trying to down, you know, downplay it, but simultaneously. Okay. Focus on different parts of your body. So I was a bit sneaky there. Nice. And I'm like, can you tell me what your car seat feels like? So I was kind of like, just tried to shift the conversation. It feels soft, and it's a little bit smooth in this part. And it's soft.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: Okay. Can you find something that feels rough? Um, yeah, the door's a little bit bumpy, but just a little bit bumpy. Cool. Can you tell me three things that you can hear right now? So I just went through things like that, and it was, like, fantastic. Instead of saying, you know, just calm down. You're just having a panic attack. Because those things can escalate.

Nina: You just take a breath.

Michelle: Because someone with anxiety, right. They can be anxious about being anxious. So you kind of just gotta, you know, sideswipe that. And. And it was just about going through, you know, one thing you can smell, two things you can hear, three things you can feel. Something like that. But I just. It was just about tuning him into what he could feel in that moment. And I just did that as though it was like a gentle, soft game. And then after a few minutes of doing That I just, I was silent for a little bit and I'm like, just check in. How does your chest feel now? Oh, it's gone. And then off he started talking about Minecraft again. So I'm like, okay, that's good. Didn't have to pull over or anything.

Nina: You know what I love about that, Michelle, is the fact that he was able to notice that his chest was feeling funny and that, uh, he felt comfortable to tell you that. And I think that goes to show in a long way how you've already embodied these mindfulness skills, maybe without knowing and helping him be aware of what's happening in his body and to even be able to identify where he's feeling that funny, weird kind of sensation. So nice one. I think that's really great and I think it's a great tip for parents listening, A, for yourself and B, for your kids when they're going through those challenging moments. So, yeah, thanks for sharing that story.

Michelle: Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah, so it was a good memory and we've used it a couple of times since.

Nina: Yeah. Oh, Ah, good. Now, as we kind of close out our chat today, for some parents, the process of supporting their children also sparks a lot of self reflection. And how has your journey shaped the way that you understand your own identity, especially in the context of possible neurodivergence?

Michelle: Okay, this one's still a work in progress because. So my son has gone through the diagnostic assessment process, which anyone who is going through that or has gone through that knows how long

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Michelle: that can take. We're going through it with our daughter at the moment, uh, with my daughter as well. So she's just started that process as well because we've spotted a few traits and there's a few big struggles she has. And a common story with parents our age is that many parents who were formerly not assessed or not diagnosed with any form of neurodivergent like traits or conditions, they, uh, don't realise it until their children are diagnosed. Yeah, often your kids will have a lot of traits that are similar to your own. So you're like, oh, no, they're fine. Because I, I maintained for ages. I'm like, no, my son's not autistic. He doesn't, he doesn't look autistic because he didn't present in the way that cinema and movies and TV shows prevent it. And so I'm like, oh, there's no way he's autistic because he's, you know, so normally he does so many things.

Nina: That we do Crazy, right? Crazy, right.

Michelle: But then when he was assessed, the clinical psychologist, she was like, there is without a shadow of a doubt he is so autistic. Okay. So when we learn more about it and we learn that it doesn't present the same way as it does in m the movies and TV shows or what our stereotypical view of autism is, or adhd. I mean he is the kid that doesn't stop, that bounces around the walls, that uh, can be naughty if he's struggling. So he does present in a stereotypical boy's ADHD fashion, but not in autism. Mhm. So with the psychologist and paediatrician talking to us about all these traits and difficulties that, that are traits of autism or ADHD or dyslexia, basically, like she's describing them to us and we're like, oh, we thought that was normal because we did that too. M. And it's like, well. And we get the side eye like, huh, yeah, well what's going on there? And so it's basically because, you know, if you have children and you don't spend a lot of time with other children, you don't have that frame of reference like your child, your child is normal. And it's not until you have people. It was, you know, daycare talking, pulling us aside each day going, this happened, this happens. Oh, but that's age appropriate, is it? Because if it was, you wouldn't be pulling me aside. I don't see other parents in tears in the daycare office because of the struggles that they're having and uh, like all these different things that are not typically the parents experience unless there's something else going on. Um, so all of that leads to you questioning yourself. And, and my mom, my mom told me this, she goes, when you are interested in something, you get really interested in it, like obsessed interested in it. That's an autistic trait. Just, just, um, just for clarification, I have not been assessed, I have not been diagnosed with anything. But that again is a typical experience of people as well, is they relate to it so much that they go on this deep self identification and learning journey where they become a walking dictionary of adhd. And, and that in itself is a, ah, trait because of such deep special interests. The funny thing is I've gone through my whole life. I've been diagnosed with depression, with anxiety. I've been treated unsuccessfully for both. When I treat myself as ADHD or autistic, I feel better.

Nina: Wow.

Michelle: Isn't that amazing?

Nina: Isn't that amazing?

Michelle: So anger goes M. Blood, uh, pressure reduces, headaches disappear.

Nina: Wow.

Michelle: Um, stress disappears because you're not dealing with. You understand so much. You can put in strategies that are unique to neurodivergent people that actually work. So isn't it amazing? I reckon there are going to be people listening that are like, yup, yup, yup, yup.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: So much of this story where you will go to people that you trust and you say, hey, I think that this might be happening for me. And they're like, oh, no, you're not autistic, you're not. You don't have adhd. You don't.

Nina: And it's almost as if it's bad. You know, there's nothing wrong with you. As if having it is something that has to be wrong.

Michelle: Yeah.

Nina: Instead of just saying, that's interesting, you know, why do you think that? Yeah.

Michelle: And it's. And it's funny they'll say that and it's like, oh, it's just the stress of parenting or, oh, no, it's just your depression. Mm. It's like, well, why does treating my depression not fix my depression yet? Treating me like I'm, um, autistic or adhd, why does that help?

Nina: Interesting.

Michelle: You know, because. And, ah, the other trouble is, is because I'm very intelligent and, um, capable and creative. But people also

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Michelle: think that being autistic is a learning disability or that you are not intelligent. And it's like, my son is very intelligent as well. Um, does that mean he's not autistic? So this is so many hurdles that people have to go through. And like, this is when I say there are so many extra invisible weights, these are the weights that I'm also talking about. Uh, and it's just, gosh, it's hard. So having strategies like understanding yourself and being able to know which mindfulness practise, because mindfulness does help, you might think, oh, mindfulness, it's just, you know, it might be nonsense. It doesn't actually work.

Nina: Who.

Michelle: Yeah, all the woo woo stuff. But, like, it's essential and it's, it's little things like the mindfulness practises that let you de. Escalate a situation, that let you recover and recharge from a situation and then come back and like, if you've just shouted at them because you. They've done something that, yeah, kids do, like, kids aren't going to, you know, they're not going to follow the rules. They're not supposed to. They're kids. Um, but you. If you respond to them in A way that you're not proud of. You shouted them, and they didn't deserve to be shouted at because you're stressed about something else or you're burnt out or elated because there's too many conversations going on at once. Then the mindfulness piece is the difference between being able to repair any damage you may have already done into your relationship with them. And it can mean the difference between being a parent they don't have to later heal from.

Nina: Wow. Yep.

Michelle: Like, think about that. Like, think about that again. Do you have to heal in any way from lack of emotional support from your parents? And many of our generation do because, uh, our poor parents didn't have the emotional support they were just told to toughen up. Yeah, they cast that on yet now we're like, hang on a minute. Emotional support is really important. So we might have to heal from our parents, but mindfulness can help our kids not have to heal from us.

Nina: Um, Michelle, I love that. And, uh, I think that's such a great note to end on because I think it's such a powerful message. You know, how the mindfulness can change generational patterns, how it can raise our kids that, uh, not have to overcome some of the challenges that. That we may have overcome because of that lack of emotional support as kids.

Michelle: Yeah. And my, my heart goes out. Honestly, my heart goes out to a lot of our generation and our parents as well, who didn't get that emotional support, who just. They had to suppress it. And, like, they will have had to have healed from their parents as well. But our parents, they just did the best that they could. Um, like, they did the best they could in, in their generation with what they had, but they had to heal from their parents and they paved the way for us to go. There's change needs to be made. So we couldn't have done it without our parents. Yeah.

Nina: Oh, beautiful. Our final question today, if someone is listening today, if they're parenting a neurodivergent child or if they're listening to what you're saying and going, hm, this sounds a bit familiar. What's one small realistic shift that they can try this week to invite a bit more calm and ease into their day?

Michelle: Oh, uh, stop measuring yourself next to neurotypical people. M. Please. Because it's like a zebra walking next to a racehorse or a stallion going, why do I suck? It's because you're different. You don't suck, you're just different.

Nina: Like with animals from the jungle, you know, the fish and the zebras and the Birds and they say, climb this tree. You know, whoever can climb it the fastest is the best. And obviously the fish can't climb the tree, the bird can't climb the tree. You can fly to the tree and it's, you know, how do we get to the top? And is it an even and a fair race if we're judging ourselves against fish and monkeys and zebras and birds?

Michelle: 100%, absolutely. And a monkey. A monkey can look at a fish and go, gosh, you must be so uncomfortable there. Let me put you in a tree.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: Like, there. Don't you feel better? No. It's because the fish needs the water to be comfortable and the monkey needs the tree to be comfortable.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: And that's the thing. The fish can't look at the monkey and go, oh, wow, you're doing so well at climbing. I must just be such a failure at life when. No, because you're an amazing swimmer. Yeah. That's the thing. A, uh, disability is because of the environment the person's in, not because of the person.

Nina: Yeah.

Michelle: And you just need to change what's around you to thrive and to be a master at what you're actually really good at.

Nina: Exactly.

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Michelle: And so I think, yeah, just like, please stop measuring yourself next to other people because they're not carrying the weights that you're carrying. Um, find other people that are like you so that you can then walk alongside them or swim alongside them and let the monkeys swing in the tree next to the monkeys. Because you'll feel like less of a failure that way. M. And one thing that I wish more people said to me, instead of giving me so much more advice. I'm sorry I'm giving you advice right now, but is I wanted for people to stop telling me to do more. Um, I just want them to go, you're doing enough.

Nina: You're enough.

Michelle: You're enough. Um, you're fine. Like, ah, you don't need to do more. You just. You're enough. Um, so to the person listening who is in tears right now, who feels like they are relating to this story so much that feels like everybody just keeps giving them advice and more things to do. You're doing enough. M. You are exactly what you need, what your child needs. You got this.

Nina: Ah, thank you, Michelle. What a lovely conversation. Thank you so much for being so open and honest and sharing your journey. I'm sure so many parents can relate. If any parents listening want to learn more about mindfulness, want to learn how they can add mindfulness to their day, maybe you want some ideas, please get in touch. Book a, uh, SOS call with me. I'll put the details in the show notes. I would love to help you experience some of the positive changes that Michelle has in her parenting journey. So thanks for speaking to me today, Michelle, and I'll talk to you again soon.

Michelle: Thanks so much, Nina.

Nina: Thanks for listening to your calm parenting path. I am so glad you're here, and I hope this episode gave you something useful to take into your parenting journey. If you'd like to dive deeper, sign up to my mailing list@mindfulparentinglifestyle.com for more tips and insights. Um, or book a free chat to learn how we can work together. And don't forget to hit, follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. I look forward to speaking with you next time on your calm parenting path.

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